Rod Ammon: Welcome to the IAAI CFITrainer.Net podcast, a feature of the International Association of Arson Investigators Premier Online Learning Network, CFITrainer.Net. IAAI President Devin Palmer joins us today to talk about his priorities for his presidency, his path as an IAAI volunteer, and his career trajectory that brought him to some of the biggest fire investigation cases in recent years. Devin Palmer is a supervisory special agent certified fire investigator with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, where he currently serves as the branch chief for the National Center for Explosives Training and Research Accreditation Center of Excellence. It's also known as NCETR. Agent Palmer previously served as an ATF National Response Team Supervisor and as the resident agent in charge for ATF Chicago Field Division's Arson and Explosives Group. He also was the program manager for ATF's Advanced Origin and Cause Courtroom Testimony course. And prior to joining ATF, Agent Palmer was an assistant state fire marshal with the West Virginia State Fire Marshal's Office. Agent Palmer is an IAAI CFI currently serving on the NFPA 1033 technical committee. Agent Palmer earned his doctorate in forensic science from Oklahoma State University in 2023. Welcome to the podcast, Mr. President.

Devin Palmer: Thank you, Rod. Thank you for having me.

Rod Ammon: So well, let's jump in. We're getting close. Well, first of all, we appreciate you being here. I know with the schedules that are going on, it's hard to carve out time to be in a quiet place, but maybe it'll be good for both of us. We're getting close to your mid-year, and I'm wondering how things are going with your vision priorities for this year as the IAAI president. You want to talk about what you've been focused on?

Devin Palmer: Yes. So this year, some of my main priorities, and I think the first one you can definitely appreciate, is to make sure that once the FEMA window opened for the grant cycle for CFITrainer.Net, we wanted to make sure that we had our grant application prepared and ready to go. Obviously, this past year within the federal government, all the shutdowns just with the whole government and then the shutdowns affecting DHS and FEMA, really kind of threw the whole grant application process into... put it on its head. And so we just wanted to make sure that we had everything ready to go as soon as the grant application cycle opened and that we were able to submit that. So I can say that we have submitted that application and we're looking forward to hearing back from FEMA on that grant. So that was one of our first priorities because we clearly want to make sure that CFITrainer.Net is funded and continues to operate as all IAAI members have come to appreciate and utilize that platform. So that was one of my main priorities and working with the steering committee on that. Another one of my priorities is in February of 2026, Executive Director Stone and myself had the opportunity to go to the American Academy of Forensic Science Conference. One of the things I would like to do is get the IAAI more involved with other parallel organizations that kind of share similar paths, similar missions to what the IAAI has. So obviously, for example, the American Academy of Forensic Science, we as fire investigators are forensic scientists. So I wanted to get more of a presence with that group. So Anne and I went and met with their executive director and assistant executive director. I had the opportunity to meet with their current president and incoming president to be able to discuss the IAAI and our role within the field of forensic science and just talk about our vision and how we could potentially work with them and partner together. But that kind of opened up my eyes to the fact that there's other organizations out there that share similar missions to IAAI and the American Academy of Forensic Science that we need to be more involved with. We've had a partnership with the International Association of Chiefs of Police for quite some time, but to get more involved with them, especially their Arson Explosive Subcommittee, Executive Director Stone and immediate past President Bridges had the opportunity to go and speak with them this past spring at their policy meeting and speak to that subcommittee and just talk about the IAAI and our vision and how we would like to try and partner with them for future training opportunities to be able to bring training to the law enforcement community. I think that is an area for growth within the IAAI that we can really focus on those frontline law enforcement officers who aren't necessarily doing origin and cause investigations but are doing the follow-up to fire investigation cases once something's determined as incendiary. So to be able to target those law enforcement officers and bring training and education to them and get them more involved with the IAAI. There's also many other associations out there, the International Association of Identification, the National Association of Subrogation Professionals, Coalition Against Insurance Fraud. I've formed what's called, or what we've started calling the Organization Collaboration Working Group. I stood that up shortly after ITC. I talked about it while we were out there during my inauguration speech to get more involved with these associations and organizations. We've met several times as a working group. We're currently in the process of developing an SOP, so then we can convert that working group into an ad hoc committee. But we're working on messaging right now to be able to take to these partner organizations and just highlight what the IAAI can bring to other outside organizations, how we can potentially partner together. You may have seen that in July of this year, we partnered with the National Association of Subrogation Professionals and provided a joint webinar series. The first part of that was in July of this year, and then the second part of that is going to be in October. So that was one of the things that came out of that organization collaboration working group and the partnership with them. We've recently signed a letter of intent with NASP for, again, partnering with them moving forward, attending their annual training conferences, reciprocal booth agreement, things like that where we can partner with other outside organizations that have kind of a similar mission or overlap with what the IAAI currently has to offer. My third priority really was, and I think we've talked about this within the IAAI for quite a while, getting the students more involved. How do we reach that next generation of fire investigators? We've always kind of joked about the graying of our profession. Obviously, we're not getting any younger, but we need to find that new generation of fire investigators and get them more involved. While Executive Director Stone and myself had the opportunity to attend the American Academy of Forensic Science Conference, they had over 200 student members there, most of which were participating in their poster program. So I had spoken to our student committee and kind of challenged them to increase the number of students that we had in attendance to the ITC next year. So this year we had 14 student members in attendance at the ITC, and I challenged our student committee to try and double that number to 28 for next year's ITC. And I just think if we can get that next generation involved and find those students who are interested in the field of fire investigation, that helps to bring those younger folks in, get new fresh ideas and continue the field that we're currently involved in.

Rod Ammon: Yeah, big deal. Well, first of all, with the other associations, that all sounds great, and it sounds like some of it's actually cementing in. And the student thing, like you said, I know that there's been work, but there has been improvement. And to hear that happen where one association has 200, I think it's a great challenge to share with our own folks. Maybe this is a sidebar and maybe you don't have the answer to this, but isn't there a scholarship program too that students can try to win a scholarship through the IAAI Foundation or the IAAI?

Devin Palmer: Yes, that's correct. So the IAAI Foundation does offer scholarships to students to be able to attend the ITC. I believe they currently offer five scholarships. I could be mistaken on that number, but yes, I know they offer several scholarships to students to be able to attend the ITC. So again, trying to get those students more involved, I would love to see that number increase, especially for scholarships. It's been a while, but I do remember what it's like to be a college student. And the cost of attending the ITC for those college kids is probably something that's a little difficult to attain, but I would love to see as many students as we could possibly get, and increasing those number of scholarships would definitely help. But yes, if any of the students out there that are listening are interested in attending the ITC, those scholarships are available through the IAAI Foundation.

Rod Ammon: Yeah. Even if they don't get the scholarship, it's certainly worth the money. I mean, when you think about what it does to your career to have those contacts early on and the way that people in the IAAI see them reach out or the outreach as mentors, I think is so valuable. And if you think about it, I have friends of mine who have kids that are in baseball or other sports, they're spending a whole lot more money than it costs to go to ITC, you know?

Devin Palmer: Oh, absolutely. My son's involved in travel soccer and I can attest that, yeah, you're definitely spending more money on sports than you are the ITC. And like you said, it is a tremendous networking opportunity. One of the things that I kind of took away from the AAFS conference was hosting the students as a meet and greet before the ITC starts. So that's one of our plans this year, is to sit down and have all the board members in attendance to be able to meet and greet those students, get to know them ahead of time so that way they recognize some familiar faces. And if they have any questions or just want to discuss anything about IAAI, fire investigation, the ITC, they have seen us beforehand, they've spoken to us, that way they're not just having to approach somebody in a presidential shirt or a board shirt cold. They have that name and the face, they've associated themselves and introduced themselves. So again, it's trying to find the balance of getting this new generation involved while still respecting the current members that we have at the ITC and things like that.

Rod Ammon: You also were working on communication of the IAAI's values and the value proposition.

Devin Palmer: Yes. So one of the things that I did when I first got into the president's position was we formed a messaging task group comprised of some of the executives and several of the board members to develop a member benefits presentation. So for some of those individuals out there that have been in attendance at some of the state chapter training events, we've provided that member benefits presentation. We delivered it the first time in Missouri. We had several board members and executives in attendance at that. They delivered the member benefits presentation there, the Arizona chapter, the Georgia chapter, and the Tennessee chapter, and Indiana chapter. I know for sure there may have been a couple other ones out there, but yeah, we developed that presentation to not only highlight the value of the IAAI to potential new members, but to also remind our current members of some of the benefits that we have out there to include the 50% discount that we have for the asbestos training, for the HAZWOPER training, the death benefit that we have, as you may recall. It used to be that we had an insurance policy that we were paying for, but the insurance policy for death benefit was only for US members. It didn't cover our international members. So several years ago we created the death benefit fund, so it's self-funded by IAAI, but it now covers all of our members, both here in the states and internationally.

Rod Ammon: That's great. Yeah, I remember that as an issue. And also the greatest member benefit I can see is the moment you click on trying to get some of the national training, if you're a member, the discounts alone will pay for your membership if I'm not mistaken.

Devin Palmer: Absolutely. There's a tremendous discount in training between the member rate and the non-member rate. So yes, we try and highlight all those benefits of membership to the potential new members out there. And like I said, highlighting that stuff for the current members to remind them what is out there that we provide from the IAAI.

Rod Ammon: Cool. So all this stuff going on, what outcomes would make this a successful year for you?

Devin Palmer: I think, like I said, one of the big things I would love to see that student number creep up. Not just creep up, I would love to see it leap up. If we could double it from the 14 we had last year, that would be a fantastic outcome just because we would be getting those new members involved. As I said, I know when Executive Director Stone and I went to the American Academy of Forensic Science Conference, a lot of their student members had no idea about fire investigation as a field. We had several students come up to us and say, "Hey, I'm interested in crime scene investigation." And I said, "Well, if you're going to be a crime scene investigator, eventually you're going to come across a crime scene that's been set on fire, whether that's to cover up a robbery, a burglary, an arson homicide, something like that. If you're a crime scene investigator, that's definitely going to be something you're going to encounter sooner or later in your career. So take a look at fire investigation, take a look at the IAAI and see what we can potentially bring to the table." So the increasing in the student membership numbers is one of my key metrics that I would love to see us accomplish for next year's ITC. And just as IAAI as a whole, we've kind of always been stuck at about the 11,000 or so membership number as part of my goal with going to these other organizations to see if we can drive membership from organizations with that similar mindset to the IAAI, with crime scene investigation, with the American Academy of Forensic Science, the insurance professionals that are out there through Coalition Against Insurance Fraud, National Association of Subrogation Professionals. So increasing the student membership numbers, increasing our overall membership numbers. And then like I said, just really being able to get out and highlight that the IAAI is the premier investigative resource, the premier association for fire investigators and the field of fire investigation. So we can get out there and when AFS or IACP or organizations like that need something in the field of fire investigation, they know that they can come to the IAAI and rely on us to give them expert opinions, expert information, and just be the resource for anybody that's looking about anything involved in the field of fire investigation.

Rod Ammon: Beautiful. Yeah, just as a sidebar, I mean, you guys, your network just went over 200,000 users, which is phenomenal. And I think the exciting part about it is the monthly statistics of active users are incredible. I mean, there's just thousands and thousands of hours of video being streamed out in multiple formats and people on board. I went and checked in there, it was like 123 people and taken modules before. And it's just great to see you guys seem to have a grasp on everything that I know going on in fire investigation. I think many people think about serving the IAAI and they tell us about... What I'm thinking is maybe you should tell us about your path with the IAEI that ultimately led to your presidency. Where did you start and how did you build on your experiences as an IAAI volunteer and then move into leadership?

Devin Palmer: So a lot of that had to do probably primarily through my position as an ATF special agent. So prior to coming to ATF, I was with the West Virginia State Fire Marshal's Office. And during my time there as a deputy state fire marshal, I was involved with the local chapter, the West Virginia State Chapter, and got elected to their board of directors. I believe I served on there for a couple of years, but then I got hired on by ATF, and ATF moved me from West Virginia to Texas. So while I was in Texas, I developed my contacts within IAAI, obviously being involved in fire investigation, and ended up joining the Texas chapter. Got elected to the board of directors for the Texas chapter of the IAAI, and then I promoted within ATF and moved to Huntsville, Alabama. So again, I had to give up my position on the board of directors there and moved to Alabama. And it was at that point that I realized, "I don't know how many more times I'm going to move with ATF, and maybe it's time for me to explore more of a volunteer position on the national level." So in some conversations with several of the past presidents, I spoke with them about the opportunity to serve the IAAI and get involved with the international board of directors. So ended up running for the international board of directors and was elected to that position. And again, just in my time as serving on the board, realized that, yes, you're a key component of the direction of what the IAAI is doing, but I saw that the role that the president and the executives played in forming and shaping that policy. And again, in talking with some of the past presidents about their time on the executive board and as president. I made the decision to run for the executive board, and again, was elected as second vice president and just have worked my way up through the executive chairs. So yeah, this just gives me the opportunity to give back to the association that I love, to serve the association, to hopefully make it a better association once my time as president ends. But yeah, just again, being able to take some of my visions and bring it out to the members, bring it out to the association and the greater field of fire investigation as a whole.

Rod Ammon: Well, I think everybody really appreciates that. They appreciate your time. And once again, congratulations for this year. Just as a little bit of background, because I think it's good for people who are listening who might have interest, you had served on the CFITrainer Steering Committee, you served on the Training and Education Committee, you also were on the Health and Safety Committees, and I think those are important stepping stones. And each time you're getting in touch with and learning more about different people who are in leadership at the IAAI. So I thought that was a great background.

Devin Palmer: Yeah, and that's a... Sorry, Rod.

Rod Ammon: No, go ahead.

Devin Palmer: And that's a great point. I think getting involved sometimes at the committee level is sometimes a great place to start. You don't always necessarily have to run for the board of directors. That happened to be my path just because I couldn't seem to stay on a state board long enough. But serving on those committees, I think, definitely gave me some great insight into the association, allowed me to participate with CFITrainer, with training and education and with health and safety. But you were asking about some of my initiatives this year as president. That was also one of my initiatives as well, is we have to develop that pathway for new member involvement rather than just tapping the same people over and over again. One of the things I asked the certifications, T&E, membership, and chapters committees to do was to identify a second co-chair for those committees so we can start getting more involvement and develop that line of succession when people decide, "Hey, I've been on this committee as the chair or co-chair long enough, maybe it's time for me to hand over the reins to somebody new." I know when I was part of health and safety, the leadership of that committee was changing and they were looking for somebody to come in and serve as the new chairs and co-chairs of that committee. But that was about the time I was getting into the executive role, so it just didn't work out for me in my role as an executive and then trying to chair a committee. But yeah, just being able to develop those new member involvements and committees and that line of succession is another thing that I've been looking at this year as well.

Rod Ammon: Great. Sort of a personal question, what have you enjoyed the most about the IAAI? I mean, it led you to committee to become president, so you want to share any personal insight into what really grabbed you and served you?

Devin Palmer: I don't know as though there's one particular thing. Obviously, the member networking at our training events is tremendous. Like I said, starting from just going to our local chapter training conferences in West Virginia and Texas and Alabama to attending my first ITC in Arlington, Texas in 2009 and getting to see our ATF CFIs there and their interactions with the board. And I believe at that time, Bobby Schaal was... I don't know if he was the president at the time, but he was definitely on the executive board. And I remember seeing him there and being like, "Wow, it's really cool that we have an ATF CFI serving on the executive board of the International Association of Arson Investigators." So that's kind of one avenue. Also, like I said, the training and certifications that we offer clearly are second to none. As program manager for Advanced Origin and Cause and Courtroom Testimony with ATF, we implemented prerequisites for that class of CFITrainer.Net modules. So understanding CFITrainer.Net and what you guys offer in the way of training available at any time to our members is another tremendous asset. So there's a lot of things that went into my love of IAAI, but I would say, I guess if there's one primary one, it's probably that membership networking opportunities that we have with our training conferences, our ITC, and just getting out and being able to interact in fellowship with those other members in the association and within the profession of fire investigation was probably one of the biggest reasons.

Rod Ammon: Makes total sense. It also, when I talk to other people, and I've been around this network of yours for quite some time now, it's unbelievable how quickly somebody can reach into their database online, the IAA's database through the website, and be able to find somebody in any state, specialty, whatever they want to do. There's a directory there for them. It's a great value that I think sometimes people overlook. And then I talk to other people and they're like, "Oh no, I found him. I looked him up on the site." I'm like, 'I love hearing that. That's..."

Devin Palmer: That's good.

Rod Ammon: "That's the network in real time." So we've talked a little bit about your career path, and there's a lot of ways to get into fire investigation. You're pretty highly educated when it gets into the forensic scientists. Why don't you just tell us the short story of your trajectory, where you started, how you did it, and any thoughts that you can share with others out there that are thinking about doing the same?

Devin Palmer: So I would guess that my career path isn't too different from a lot of college students. When I originally went to college, thought I wanted to do one thing. My undergraduate degree was in toxicology and environmental science. I thought that I wanted to go to work for DEA working in their lab. But while I was in college, I realized that I did not want to work in a lab for the rest of my life. So at that point, when I graduated from undergraduate school, there's a small college or small university in Ohio, Ashland University, decided, "Okay, I don't necessarily know exactly what I want to do right now, so I'm going to go pursue a graduate degree." So I ended up going to Marshall University and got my master's degree in forensic science. But while I was there, I took a training class through the West Virginia State Fire Marshal's Office. It was a live hands-on fire investigation class, one where they burn a structure and then the students come in and actually investigate the origin and cause of the fire. So took that class through the West Virginia State Fire Marshal's Office and fell in love with fire investigation. So I went back and talked to my graduate school advisor and they're like, "Oh yeah, we've had students in the forensic science program intern with the local fire department, the Huntington West Virginia Fire Department." So I immediately contacted their fire investigation unit, talked to the captain there, ended up interning with them for pretty much the entirety of my time in grad school. The guys in the firehouse fed me a lot, so that was always a good thing for a college student who didn't have a lot of money. But going there and being able to participate and help out with the fire investigation from just whatever the investigators needed, taking pictures, helping to document things, again, just as an intern investigator, being in the scene, helping them shovel out. And then one of those investigators ended up being... He did private fire investigation on his days off. So Lieutenant Steve Ellis, he was actually an accelerant detection canine handler as well. So I got exposed to the private side, the public sector side of fire investigation, as well as accelerant detection canine handler side of things. So it really exposed me to a lot of the different aspects of fire investigation. But interned with him on his days off when we did a private fire investigation. Again, as an assistant investigator, just pretty much what I did was go around and document all the model and serial number information for the HVAC systems, the water heater, the kitchen appliances, everything like that, and just pretty much wrote them on a page that they had laid out to document that stuff. And that was my role. But yeah, it's how I got involved in fire investigation. And then interned with the West Virginia State Marshal's Office, interned with the ATF. Everybody I talked to with the local fire department, the state, they all said, "Hey, if you're interested in fire investigation, you need to go to work for ATF and become one of their CFIs and participate in the national response team because ATF was the premier fire investigation agency in the country." So about the time I graduated from grad school is when I applied with ATF. The state of West Virginia had an opening, they hired me on, but I was still in the process with ATF. So worked with the state for a couple years before I finally got the call from ATF that I got the position and they offered me the letter to go to Tyler, Texas and become an ATF special agent there and go to the academy. So it was just one of those where I kind of just happened into the profession. I wasn't really looking at it, but I got a taste of it while I was in grad school and fell in love with it, and it's kind of been my passion ever since.

Rod Ammon: It shows. I appreciate you taking the time to say that because I think a lot of people can learn a lot. There's little nuggets in there that are very valuable. I think a lot of folks, including myself and others, that you go to college and, "Yeah, boy, I'm glad I took that. Now what am I going to do?" And you branched out and went after something, and then you reached out. I don't know how many people would've thought to get in touch with the folks at Huntington, and so that's all good. And that passion and motivation, I mean, in everybody's career in anything, it's so valuable, but I appreciate you sharing that. So let's end our time together with a preview of ITC. What's coming up next year?

Devin Palmer: So next year we're going to be in Reno, Nevada at the Peppermill Resort. Now, I have not had the opportunity to go out there as part of site selection yet, but from everything I've heard from the folks on the site selection committee, it is a fantastic facility. Looks gorgeous from what I've seen on the pictures and everything. So as far as our venue, I'm very excited about that. Obviously, the call for presentations closed in July, and I believe training and education is looking over those now. We'll clearly have a great group of instructors. We always do. Hopefully this year we will be able to highlight some of the things that we have going on within the IAAI. I can't say necessarily a couple of those things because they're still in the works, but if we are able to present those, I think it's really going to be a cool thing for the association and the direction we're going moving forward. But it's kind of part of one of those aspects of working with other similarly aligned organizations that a partnership may be able to produce some fruit that people can see at the ITC this year. But yeah, I'm excited for the venue. I'm excited for obviously the training that we always put on is second to none. I think it's going to be a good ITC this year. Like I said, I wish I could tell you exactly what's going to be on the schedule, but training and education always does a dynamite job of lining up the best instructors. And I'll actually be out there in January as part of the site selection. So I'll get to take a look at the venue for myself. But again, everything I've seen, it looks fantastic.

Rod Ammon: Well, I sort of jumped the gun and I put you under the gun. I'm sorry about that. I was reading IAAI things coming soon and I knew some things were happening and ITC just spilled out and I couldn't stop myself. So thanks for telling us what you can.

Devin Palmer: Oh, you're good. ITC is always a highlight, Rod. You know that. It's a great time.

Rod Ammon: Well, I think it's good even just to get out where it's going to be and that it's a good facility because sometimes there's been years where people really... There's been a focus on making the facilities better, having better services, comfort programs for spouses and partners. So you also... I guess the 1321 FIU class, didn't you just pilot that in Orlando?

Devin Palmer: Yes. We just piloted that class down in Orlando. We had about 24 students, I believe, from that one. We're currently in the process of taking a look at the evaluations from it to see what we can improve with that class. And yeah, we're excited to bring that out to everybody moving forward. But like I said, we're looking at the reviews now. And I know there's a couple things that we can improve upon, but I think that's going to be a very good class going forward. We had a great set of instructors, Past President Rick Jones and membership committee chair, Dixon Robin, along with Cassie Jones were involved as being instructors for that class. I missed the first day of that class because I was at the opening for the Tennessee chapter conference, but the day and a half that I was there, it was really informative. And like I said, I think it'll be good information to get out to all those that are definitely involved in supervision of fire investigation units and involved in that aspect with 1321.

Rod Ammon: Cool. You also have... I guess the mid-year board meeting is coming up with the Colorado chapter?

Devin Palmer: Yes, that's correct. We're going to be partnering with Colorado chapter this year for the midyear. We're going to go out there and have our in-person board meeting. We're also going to be presenting the member benefits presentation with them. And we also are, I can't remember the name of the class now, but of course past President David Bridges being an attorney was the one that named the class and it's more than a mouthful for me, but it's primarily fundamentals of adult learning. So this is kind of a curriculum development, how to be an instructor, almost like a fundamentals class for becoming a certified instructor with IAAI. So we're going to be conducting that as kind of a parallel track at the same time that the Colorado conference is going on. So yeah, excited to get out there with them. We were out there several years ago under past President Toth, and that was a really good conference and a good time. I know while we were out there, since it is October in Colorado, got a little dicey with the weather, so hopefully the weather holds for us this year and we don't have to fight the snowstorm going back to the airport. But yeah, it should be a good time. So if you're able to make it out to the Colorado conference this year, be sure to say hello and our board will be there in attendance. Everyone should be there.

Rod Ammon: It's beautiful you're doing that in conjunction with chapters. I love when I see that because in a lot of organizations, they don't engage enough with their chapters. And you guys seem to be really making an effort and have been for quite some time to get out to their meetings and to be part. So that can only strengthen both of you.

Devin Palmer: Not only that, that we're going to partner with the Colorado chapter for our mid-year, but we are also going in and holding an in-person board meeting and partnering with the European Association of Fire Investigators, the European chapter. Because we are an international organization, we're not just confining ourselves to the US, but we want to make sure that we're getting out to our international members as well and make sure they understand they're an integral part of this association. And so we are partnering with them. We're going to be over there for their conference. Several of our board members are going to be serving as instructors. We're going to, again, hold an in-person board meeting while we're there, participate with their board. And again, as part of that international outreach that the IAAI brings, I believe back in 2023 under past President Randy Watson, we went over to the UK Association of Fire Investigators and held an in-person board meeting with them. So periodically, it's good for us to get out and partner with those international members because we ask, and I don't want to say expect, but we have our international members travel into the United States or at least North America for the ITC every year. So occasionally we have to get out there and give back to the international members and interact with them on their home soil instead of expecting them to travel to the United States for the ITC every year. So again, just that opportunity to be able to get out with the chapters, like you said, that was something the board decided on several years ago that when we held these in-person board meetings, we were going to do it in conjunction with local chapter events. That way we can get out as a board and interact with the chapters, interact with our members, see what issues are out there and what we can do to potentially address those. So it's just good to be able to get out to the chapters and interact with the members and things like that.

Rod Ammon: Excellent. What else am I missing or did we nail it?

Devin Palmer: I think we nailed it.

Rod Ammon: Anything else you wanted to get across? We nailed it. All right. Well, thanks President Palmer. We appreciate your time. Hope the conversation has gotten some folks excited about doing more with the IAAI and maybe even exploring new career path opportunities.

Devin Palmer: Thank you, Rod. I appreciate the time and the opportunity to speak to everybody out there in the IAAI today.

Rod Ammon: Thanks, President Palmer. We appreciate your time and hope the conversation has gotten folks excited about doing more with the IAAI and exploring new career path opportunities. And here's some news from the IAAI and CFITrainer.Net. CFITrainer.Net has released three modules so far in 2026. Fireplace Systems lays the foundation for considering a fireplace system in an origin and cause hypothesis. You'll learn the layout and components of different fireplace system types, how to identify the fireplace appliance at the scene, and how to evaluate a fireplace system as part of an origin and cause investigation. Two recognized fireplace investigation experts, IAAI CFI Rick Jones and IAAI CFI Dale Feb will guide you through the appliance identification process and how the investigator and the fireplace systems expert work cooperatively at the scene. This module is available now and there's a link in the resources on this podcast page on CFITrainer.Net. Then we have two modules in a sequence about sources of information in a fire or explosive investigation. Sources Of Information: Origin and Cause fills in a crucial step in the scientific method, the data needed for hypothesis development and testing. The module goes inside the investigative thinking process to learn how the need for specific types of information develops organically and where to look for that information. Deciding what information to seek, where to obtain that information, and how to apply it in your origin and cause determination is a critical investigative skill that this module will help you develop. Sources of Information: Follow-up Investigation explores the heart of the data and information gathering process that drives hypothesis development and testing in the scientific method specifically during the investigative phase after the scene examination has concluded. This module explains the process of developing information during post-scene follow-up investigation to show how the information needs evolve as facts are gathered from activities like evidence examination, witness statement corroboration, and financial analysis. Learn how to identify what information is missing and where to obtain it. This IAAI CFITrainer.Net podcast is brought to you by the International Association of Arson Investigators and is made possible with funding provided by the Fire Prevention and Safety Grant from the Assistance to Firefighters Grant program administered by the Federal Emergency Management Agency of the US Department of Homeland Security. Support also comes from the Global IAAI Membership Network, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, strategic partners, and voluntary online donations from CFITrainer.Net users. Thanks for joining us today on the podcast. Stay safe. We'll talk again soon. For the International Association of Arson Investigators and CFITrainer.Net, I'm Rod Ammon. And a special thanks to Cathy Dipierro, who does our research and writing for these podcasts.

President’s Welcome: Devin Palmer. International Association of Arson Investigators.

Fireplace Systems. Online learning module. CFITrainer.Net.

Sources of Information: Origin & Cause. Online learning module. CFITrainer.Net.

Sources of Information: Follow Up Investigation. Online learning module. CFITrainer.Net.

FireArson Website