Rod Ammon: Welcome to the CFITrainer.Net Podcast. We have a lot of news on the CFITrainer.Net and IAAI training fronts today. Exciting new ways to stay current in your knowledge and skills despite COVID and budget challenges are here. First, Bobby Schaal, a project manager of CFITrainer.Net is with us to talk about the new fire investigation for fire officer's certificate. It's now available on the network. Bobby is a retired ATF special agent certified fire investigator and a former assistant special agent in charge of the New Orleans Field Division. He's now a consultant and forensic fire investigator with Gulf Coast Fire Investigation Research and Education. Bobby, it's always good to have you here.

Bobby Schaal: Hey, good talking to you Rod.

Rod Ammon: Glad you could be with us today. Sort of wanted to find out a little bit about the background of this, I started joking around calling it a FIFO Certificate, but maybe it's good people hear something like that. But the F-I-F-O certificate, can you tell us about a fire officer's investigation responsibilities and what this certificate's about?

Bobby Schaal: Yeah, the fire officers under NFPA 1021 which is the standard for Fire Officer Professional Qualifications, do have varying degrees of investigative responsibility. We would call it the first line of defense, they get the first eyes on the fire. So we want them to have some preliminary concept of the investigation process and understand they're part of the investigative team. Under fire investigator one, it's a general requirement and it's outlined in Section 4. In Fire Officer two, it gets a little more specific, talking about identifying the area of origin and that is outlined in Section 5 of the standard.

Rod Ammon: Okay, so what is this certificate? Tell me about that.

Bobby Schaal: The FIFO Certificate, and FIFO is just an acronym we use to denote Fire Investigation for Fire Officers. We decided that there was a constant request for a track information in various disciplines. So how do we do this? How do I become a fire investigator? How do I do this? So in looking at it, we said fire officers need some guidance in expanding their origin and cause capabilities. So what can we do? We looked at our existing modules and we picked out some of those. And then in a previous grant, we also focused on developing modules specifically for fire officers.

We packaged them together to kind of create a roadmap where somebody interested in developing their fire investigation skills can go in there and it outlines the modules they have to take. And then we also have two sub-disciplines, the youth-set fire add-on and the motor vehicle fire add-on, that supplement and add to the core fire investigation for fire officers, multi-program certificate.

Rod Ammon: All right. And yeah, so an important thing to do, and I think a nice thing to do as far as people that document their career as they're moving in. So it would be valuable to not only people who are necessarily fire officers, but perhaps people who are interested in becoming fire officers?

Bobby Schaal: Yeah, I think so. I think it's a good way to demonstrate that you do in fact meet this particular job performance requirement outlined in the standard at both the fire officer one and the fire officer two levels. So as a developmental track if your goal is to become a fire officer, I think building your curriculum vitae and showing that you have experience in all of the job performance requirements of that position, I think aids you as you transition into that position.

Rod Ammon: Yeah. Okay, I thought that might make sense. And I'm also wondering maybe to put this in context, there are a lot of things that fire officers have to do. A lot of standards and a lot of guidelines that they have to pay attention to all the time. Why do you think it's important that fire officers earn this certificate?

Bobby Schaal: Again I think it's important because they oftentimes are our first eyes on the scene and they may be the only eyes on the scene. So having some background on fire investigation, the origin and cause determination will allow them to better assess situation and better utilize resources. If they can easily identify, let's say food on the stove, they don't need to call somebody from their fire investigation unit to come out. They can save that for a more complex scenario that might be a better use of those resources. But we also want them to understand that they are part of the team and what they look at, even if they do have a formal fire investigation unit, it gets called out, builds on that. And you don't want contradictory information. You want complementary information and you want to build on information and have consistent information throughout the investigation.

So actions they take on the scene, like you mentioned, they have a broader scope than the fire investigator that's just there to do origin cause. They have suppression, overhaul, command and control type of requirements, but they can execute those with the fire investigation in mind when exigent circumstances diminish and it's safe to do so. So they can maybe limit overhaul, they can secure the scene, they can restrict access to certain areas, that all help build better opportunity for success when we do the origin and cause investigation.

Rod Ammon: Yeah, that's well said. I don't know that I could have put it all together like that. I think that really brings it home. And then the one great motivating factor is what if you don't do it right? What are the ramifications if you're not conducting investigations in accordance with standards?

Bobby Schaal: Well, if you don't do an investigation according to the standards, if you move to criminal litigation or civil litigation, you certainly put your case at peril. You won't be able to successfully adjudicate it in either venue, but also if you don't formalize the process and you don't take the process serious, you can make mistakes that hamper anybody's ability to come in and do a competent investigation. Let's say a firefighter is there and then they think it's a Christmas tree fire. So they take the Christmas tree and the lights so they can use it in a demonstration back at the firehouse. Well, now they've compromised that scene where civil practitioners that may come in afterwards don't have the evidence that they need to look at.

So even if you're not going to take the case forward in the civil arena, they need to understand that other people will have an interest in that scene and still preserve that scene so others may look at it in the same light that they got to see it in, and not compromise evidence and not compromise the scene.

Rod Ammon: I appreciate you coming on today.

Bobby Schaal: Well, I appreciate the opportunity. And if I could give another plug to fire officers is we did recently develop some matrix documents that outline what modules we have available that support job performance requirements in a particular standard. NFPA 1021 is one of those standards that we created this matrix for. So more overarching guiding information is also available in that resource document that's available on CFITrainer.Net as well.

Rod Ammon: Since you opened up that can of worms, there's so many new things that are going on on CFITrainer.Net. I guess maybe if we focus on just one of those that you just went through and we're checking, and that was the transcript and what you're going to be able to do with a transcript. You want to talk briefly about that?

Bobby Schaal: Sure. Right now, any course you take on CFITrainer.Net and any IAAI training offering, and then a number of IAAI affiliate chapter training option, you can test through the CFITrainer.Net platform, and that creates a transcript or training log of all the courses you've taken. Right now we kind of do it alphabetically, but we are enhancing that where you'll be able to sort by date and other features.

So it's a good one stop shop to kind of keep all of your training records and you can see where you're current and make sure that you maintain documentation that may be needed for certification as you move down the road.

Rod Ammon: You always have a crystal clear answer. I appreciate that about you, Bobby.

Bobby Schaal: Yeah, I appreciate it Rod.

Rod Ammon: All right man. Thanks very much and I hope you have a good weekend and holiday.

Bobby Schaal: All right. You too, Rod. Thank you.

Rod Ammon: We've got a link to the FIFO or F-I-F-O certificate on this webpage. It's the F-I-F-O certificate.com and that'll take you directly to some information that's relevant on CFI Trainer. Again, that's at the F-I-F-O certificate.com webpage, and it's supporting this podcast. So please check that out. If you've taken any of the modules required for that certificate, you will automatically receive credit for that and don't have to take them again. So you may already well be on your way to earning the certificate itself. As we move into the winter and think about skiing, it brings to mind a news release from the ATF that came across our social media feed recently detailing a reward of $15,000 for information leading to the arrest and conviction of the person or persons who have been setting fires in Stowe Vermont, there've been over a dozen fires stretching back to 2016.

Four of those fires have occurred since June 2020. Most recently at the Stowe Cablevision office. Luckily, no one's been injured or killed so far, but more than $4 million in property damage has been caused by these fires. And they're a great concern in the Stowe community. To learn more about this, keep an eye on the ATF site. There are links to many of those pages on this podcast page.

Now let's talk about in-person classes. The IAAI has always had a robust in-person class program. Many courses consistently sell out. When COVID hit the IAAI pivoted to online delivery of instructor-led classes through the Zoom platform. To date, the IAAI has successfully delivered seven sessions of these classes. Attendance has been strong and recorded versions of some of these classes are available online on the firearson.com training classes page. This has proven to be a viable model for the IAAI to continue to make this critical training available to a wide audience, and we expect that to outlast the pandemic as the IAAI integrates this new delivery method into its slate of training opportunities. It's a great way for professionals with limited time, constrained budgets and travel issues to receive instructor-led classes. Moving forward, the IAAI's online instructor-led classes will be delivered over the CFITrainer.Net platform as webinars in some cases, this has a number of advantages for you.

You'll be able to see those webinars listed on CFITrainer.Net, next to our training modules, you can register for the webinar through CFITrainer.Net. The webinar will be listed on your transcript once you've completed it, you'll get a list of resources to continue your learning and the webinars topic. You'll have one click access to the certificate of completion test, and no pin is required. You'll also be able to immediately download your certificate once you pass the post webinar test. As long as you registered for the webinar, you'll also be able to go back any time and watch the recording.

The only thing you have to do is be sure you are registered with CFITrainer.Net, and then keep your eye out for these webinars as they are listed and register for the ones that interest you. Just like the IAAI in-person classes, these webinars typically have a registration fee, this doesn't affect the regular CFITrainer.Net online modules. Those remain free of charge. We'll be rolling out the webinars feature in January to February of 2021. So look for an email blast announcing the first instructor-led webinars being delivered this way.

Don't worry, as soon as COVID allows, the IAAI will restart its in-person classes, but we will also continue to deliver webinars on CFITrainer.Net, as well as produce and release the training modules we always have. It's a beautiful thing when we can give you more ways to get training. One last bit of news, last month, the IAAI International and the Connecticut Chapter of the IAAI worked together to take the chapter's 35th annual arson investigators seminar virtual. Over 320 professionals attended the day-long event held entirely over Zoom with training sessions delivered remotely by respected instructors joining from all over the United States and a socially distant annual meeting broadcast live from a hotel ballroom. IAAI president Rick Jones and members of the IAAI board of directors participated as instructors and panelists. The virtual seminar delivered at no cost to attendees provided eight tested hours for continuing education credits to maintain professional certifications.

Feedback from participants was universally positive about the content and this new mode of attendance with many rave reviews. Congratulations to Paul Makuc, president of the Connecticut Chapter and their board for a job very well done. If you've got an innovative way, your IAAI chapter is meeting the needs of its membership, use the feedback form on this podcast page to let us know about it. We may feature it on an upcoming podcast.

One last item today is a bit of a challenge. The IAAI is application for the most recent cycle of the assistance to firefighters grant program administered by FEMA and the US department of Homeland Security was not selected for funding. The IAAI anticipates applying again in the next cycle which will be in 2021. The IAAI and the team at CFITrainer.Net are committed to continuing to build CFITrainer.Net, and indeed there are a number of modules that will be released over the next six months. If you enjoy this podcast and other training brought to you on CFITrainer.Net, please consider making a donation to support the network and its programming so we can continue to bring you podcasts like this on new and emerging topics in fire investigation and develop new things for the network itself. A donation link is available on this podcast Page at CFITrainer.Net.

This podcast and CFITrainer.Net are made possible by funding from a fire prevention and safety grant from the assistance to Firefighters Grant Program administered by FEMA and the US Department of Homeland Security. Support is also coming from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives and voluntary online donations from CFITrainer.Net users and podcast listeners. We appreciate your support and remember to share these podcasts with one of your peers, friends, and when you get a chance, please click on the donate link up at the CFITrainer.Net page so that you can make a donation no matter how small it is toward helping us produce new content that's good for the entire fire investigation community. Thanks for joining us on the podcast today. Stay safe and we'll see you next time. For the international association of arson investigators and CFITrainer.Net. I'm Rod Ammon.